MUSLIM SCHOOLS

7:15am Saturday 21st February 2009 in Blogs 2013 Photograph of the Author By Hugh O'Neill

A newspaper article on Friday stated that some Muslim schools are preaching extreme sectarianism and are removing from their curricula anything that relates to the UK’s cultural history. This is an incredible move with appalling implications.

I hope that I am known for my support of almost all monotheistic religions and the wish to see all possible cross sect accommodations; it is not therefore the religious aspect of the move that concerns me. The problem is the integration of people of whatever background into a single multi-cultural state with at least some semblance of a shared culture.

That our literature, Shakespeare and others, should be banned is unacceptable.

Schools that opt for the proposed hard line should not be reccognised. They should receive no funding, their “qualification” should not be recognized, and children who attend them and fail to attend a recognized school should be treated as truants.

I have no problem if schools who basically accept the standard curriculum (what ever that might be) should also offer additional classes based around Islam, but surely anyone who lives and intends to work within a society should speak that societies language and abide by that societies laws and norms.

A standard basic curriculum IS on of this country's norms.

Comments(14)

David Taylor says...
4:20pm Sat 21 Feb 09

The French idea of Secular Schools is the only way to promote integration. I am sorry Hugh, as excellent as they may be I would ban Catholic schools,C of E Schools, Muslim schools, and little green men from Mars schools. As Loyola the Jesuit is rumoured to have said "give me the child before he is 7 (or some such)and I will give you the man". Faith schools, especially Islamic, perpetuate division and re-enforce prejudices.

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Jon D says...
11:14pm Sat 21 Feb 09

I agree. We need to stop all religion in schools. I don't care about upsetting anyone's feelings anymore, this is 2009 for God's sake, it is all ****! Our Lord the baby Jesus, The Virgin Mary, Allah, not eating pork, not eating beef, no blood transfusions - GROW UP!! There may or may not be a God, one thing is certain all the trimmings are hocus pocus! Its great that you like all monotheistic religions as I think the pantheistic religions are far superior!(if I had to choose). Why can't we promote those in school? There was a true story read on radio 4 last November where a missionary went to convert the Red Indians. They laughed in his face, they could not get their heads round the crucifiction story it was so alien to their culture. Their pantheistic faith was far stronger than 'poor little talkative Christianity'(E.M Forster) and of course they had no fear of death which in the end all this religion boils down to. Ultimately the missionary became an atheist.

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Hugh ONeill says...
7:34am Sun 22 Feb 09

There is one thing that we do agree on - I accept that many of the trimmings we now have in most religions are "hocus pocus" which is why I campaign for a return to roots.

My researches have convinced me that the declining interest in church is a symotpm of the fact that most focus, almost exculsively, on tradiitional ritual, and they have lost connection with the real world issues oof today. In doing this they have lost sight of their purpose and much of their original mission.

There is today a massive searching but very few find their answers in the organised religions that are on offer. Atheism is not increasing but rejection of the present organised religions is.

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Iftikhar says...
10:02am Sun 22 Feb 09

.It is easy to say" Go back to where you came from",but do not forget that British Muslims are actually born and educated here. They are in the unenviable position of trying to combine two diffent worlds. That is no easy.

Multiculturalism is not about separation, ghettoisation or balkanisation. It is, instead, a recognition of both diversity and the need for common ground, mutual respect,and cultural engagement.

Muslims all over the world never opposed English as a language what they did was opposition of the Western culture and their system of education. In Pakistan, the medium of instruction is Urdu and English and the official language is both English and Urdu. Pakistan is going to send English teachers to Korea for the teaching of English language.

Muslim parents would like their children to be well versed in standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity.

Majority of Muslim children leave schools with low grades because state schools with monolingual teachers are not capable of teaching English to bilingual children.At the same time, they need to learn and be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry. Bilinguaaism is an asset but British schooling percieves it as a problem.

I am concerned with the education of the Muslim children. It is nothing to do with integration or segregation. Those state as well as Church schools where Muslim children are in majority, in my opinion, may be designated as Muslim community schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models.

Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. Muslim schools do not encourage children to despise British society. They do not threaten social cohesion and no way fueling "ghettoisation and segregation". According to a recent report, Danish and British parents threatened to move their children to other schools because there were too many Muslim children. People are nervous about their children's upbringing.They feel that Muslims belong to different culture. British schooling is the home of institutional racism and this is the main reason why Muslim community and other communities need state funded schools for their children.

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Rob O'Shea says...
6:41pm Sun 22 Feb 09

Welcome Iftikhar, nice to have a Muslim speak on here for a change. With regard to the religious looney 'Hotfuzz' the quote she has so disgracefully put on here is an absolute fabrication taken from the evil site 'Christian quoter'. Religious weirdos like Hotfuzz are told to spread this completely ficticious piece of genuine race hate. As if the Australian PM would stoop so low, how thick is this Hotfuzz? Was she tampered with at birth? If you wanted to compare it with the British experience (though I realise I shouldn't give this piece of scum any time) Muslims WERE asked to come here after the war due to a labour shortage. With regard to Australia it is not the Christian's land it is the Aborigine's you stupid ****. My favourite bit is the bit 'If God offends you' - I didn't realise Muslims didn't believe in God, DOH! I have to apologise to Dave Taylor for accusing him of being a rascist when we have the genuine article in Hotfuzz. I will seriously be contacting Clive Joyce to see if he can block her off here. Meanwhile well done Hugh 'i like to stir up a Hornet's nest it may help me get an eternal life' O'Neil with this insensitive blog at a time of possible 1930's style rising racial tension.

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Jon D says...
11:11pm Sun 22 Feb 09

Much as I sympathise with the plight of Muslims in todays Britain, Iftikhar, I can't agree that Muslims should have their own schools. Only by mixing together will we learn to get along and this will ultimately benefit Muslims. There is a consensus emerging that we should be moving away from organised monotheistic religions towards the natural pantheistic religions which existed before Christiany. Muslims could contribute toward this by promoting it's own brand of Sufism. Rob, don't worry about being over sensitive about race, Hotfuzz's piece shows how quickly that filth can be used, and how we should be ever vigilant. It also shows what ordinary Muslims are subjected to every day. I wonder if this Hotfuzz is the same person who blogged as 'Juno' about a year ago?

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Hugh ONeill says...
7:46am Mon 23 Feb 09

I too welcome Iftikhar's contribution. While I expressed concern over the extremist stance being taken by an element in Muslim society, it is hardly a suprise to anyone when I come out in support of church schools in general.

It would not be going too far to lump the extremist that I was writing about with schools that bar any religious education, who promote the supremacy of human rights without equally stressing human responsibilities, and who do nothing to promote human, multi cultural, relations.

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alandean says...
7:49pm Mon 23 Feb 09

I for one wish that our own leader would think in the same way as the Australian Prime Minister thinks, I am sick of constantly checking before saying something in case my comments offend someone, we are no longer free to say what we want in fear of being call racist or prejudiced or some other ruddy label, our right to freedom of speech is no more yet others can freely protest through the streets of London without problems because those that would stop use are afraid to be accused of some kind of racial discrimination. We are no longer allowed to watch our children perform a traditional Christmas play because it offends non Christians, fictional programs remove images that represent Christ because it offends other faiths, Muslim children as well as other faiths can opt out of religious studies in schools that would teach the traditional faith yet we must force our children to learn about other faiths so as to understand diversity, if I went to Afghanistan and attempted to build a church to teach Christianity I would be stoned to death within a week yet mosque are being built in ever increasing numbers throughout our country, like Kevin Rudd said if they want to come fine, but live as we do learn our language and abide by our laws, if not then don’t come in.

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Rob O'Shea says...
6:22pm Tue 24 Feb 09

How many more times - Kevin Rudd (the Labour prime minister of Australia) never said it, it is a bit of rabble rousing for people like alandean. If you can't see that then there is really no point in wasting my time taking your arguement apart. Doh!

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hotfuzz says...
7:59pm Tue 24 Feb 09

Rob O'Shea and Jon D

Your type are typical of reasons why we are in such a ridiculous politically correct, feeble mess in this country. (eg Bibles on top shelves, take Christ out of Christmas etc...)

You knee-jerk everytime that you think someone is saying something that offends your extreme liberal postitions.
Whether or not the speech was fabricated - if you actually look at what is contained in it without your blinkers - you might notice that there was nothing that attacks individuals (irregardless of their culture or origins) who choose to live in a 'foreign' country - they were welcomed so long as they had the manners to respect their host country, and having chosen to live there, accept THAT culture.
If I choose to live abroad, I would not be so presumptious as to expect to change my new environment.

I am not 'racist' but Mr O'shea, there is a need for realism - not your cow-towing subservience towards anyone who wants to take up residence here and then tell our indeginous population how we should live!

Write what you like in response, I shan't comment further - there are more with the 'moderate' (yes - moderate!!)views of alandean who are fed-up with people like you!

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Jon D says...
10:44pm Tue 24 Feb 09

Hotfuzz - you are clearly lacking in an education. The piece reproduced was clearly designed to inflame prejudices but wrapped in a Nick Griffin like false exterior.Really you do not need to go further than the fact that they had to lie about the authorship (Hotfuzz - to lie is to break one of the 10 commandments which is in a thing called the Bible). You make me laugh, you haven't the faintest idea of what Christianity is all about 'this is our country our land our lifestyle' - what truck would Jesus have with that? None, he would recognise nothing so worldly as national boundaries and racial separation, according to him we are all the same. To get back to reality (or lack of it)you say you wouldn't be so presumptious to change your new environment. Why then when your good old Christian compadres settled in America didn't they accept the vastly superior pantheistic religions of the indigenous red indians? Why drive the aboriginees off Kevin Rudd's Australia? Ok that's in the past, let's get closer to today - Spain and Portugal. 100,000 expats live there, it is absolutely a home from home, pubs,greasey spoons, etc etc and no one (i mean NO ONE) speaks Spanish or Portruguese!!! We are now settling in France and despite a promising start we are slowly Anglo-Saxonifying it. House prices rising, estate agents springing up, tacky supermarkets, cricket being played and of course fewer and fewer people speaking French. I admit I (and Rob O'Shea) am a bit of a PC thug when it comes to racism and can take it too far, but the reason for that is that there are too many unChristian people like Hotfuzz out there and with a bit of gentle prodding it is usually quite easy to extract the rascist from the genuine integrationist. We can tell you are clearly the former from the language you use."cow towing subservience"??LOL! "tell our indigenous population how we should live" 1)who is the indigenous population? we are a mongrel race (you should have watched that tv programme that proved it by blood and genetics, oh how you would have cried),2)who is telling (mythic)indigenous people how to live? No immigrant has ever told me! You need to get out beyond Foley Park traffic lights, you may get a nose bleed but trust me it will soon stop. Take a visit to the East End, speak to the locals you may realise that the majority of immigrants you read about in 'BullDog' ,or whatever you BNP types read these days, are actually just like me and you (God forbid) and are primarily concerned with just getting by and not trying to scare silly little girls like yourself with some silly Jihad.

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Steph B says...
8:59am Wed 25 Feb 09

I am an integrationist and believe in strict immigration controls, but people like Hotfuzz make it difficult to argue as they confuse the issue with race. Things do happen with the demotion of Christianity but they are few and far between blown out of all proportion by the tabloids. Its like the myth that shops aren't allowed to display Christmas images, strange as at the same time people are complaining about how Christmas is too massive and in your face these days.Also with the myth that you can't fly the union jack,not true it was flying everywhere during the last international football tournament. If one place is asked to take it down (wrongly) then it is headline news. We need to gain some balance. As for the Nation of Islam comment in another thread, that says it all really.

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alandean says...
4:46pm Wed 25 Feb 09

Ok, if Kevin Rudd did not say the things hotfuzz printed I will retract the part that mentions his name, but still wish our leaders would say what needs to be said, I have no problem with other peoples beliefs until if effects my life and the life of my children, they say we live in a multi cultural society with people from all walks of life and religious beliefs again that fine but why is it that certain people are not able to show their beliefs in case it offends others. This is the United Kingdom a once proud nation with a rich cultural history that is slowly being stripped away to make way for the history of others. I want to see my child play Mary at Christmas in the school play but because of two other children the school has refused to allow a traditional play that celebrates Christ yet English Muslims are free to celebrate rahmadam without worry of offending people, I want to be able to employ someone because they were the best person for the job and not be accused of racial discrimination because I did not employ a guy who had a less than basic understanding of our language and an even poorer understanding of the job itself. I want to fly the flag of my country and walk down the streets of town on st George’s day and feel pride as a hundred shops displaying that flag, you can label me all you want call me raciest put me down and give more readings from the ten commandments, but if you do it better be fast because soon you will not be allowed in case you offend someone reading this blog.

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FlipC - The Mad Ranter says...
5:11pm Wed 25 Feb 09

I'm sure my views on religion are known by now and this covers that of religious education, however in an attempt to get back on track here I'll quote Iftikhar - 'They do not threaten social cohesion and no way fueling "ghettoisation and segregation".'

Yes they are; I'm sorry about that, but it's simple human nature and nothing specific about Muslim/Catholic/CofE schools this applies to State school vs Public, heck even football teams with stadiums keeping the respective fans separated.

What is different in this case is the antipathy being voiced towards this particular religion and the seriousness that some take towards their own. Muslim only schools have no real difference than other religious schools bar there 'newness', but the simple fact of their existence is being used by some to highlight these separations that would exist in a low-level form anyway.

You want to keep your own culture and teach your own take on things - fine so does every other school religious or otherwise, but you've still got to accept the majority social knowledge gestalt or this sort of thing is just going to keep happening and get worse.

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